An ambitious individual who grew up in the west, this UCLA Anderson alumnus was always looking for ways to learn, see, and do more—he even started his own construction and landscaping business while still a teenager. Despite developing a keen interest in biology and economics while in undergrad, he returned to the construction industry out of college, having accepted a compelling management-level role that allowed him to travel the world and oversee large projects. Eventually, though, his interest in exploring other options sparked his pursuit of a master’s degree in business, and he ultimately enrolled at the UCLA (University of California, Los Angeles) Anderson School of Management.
mbaMission: What originally inspired you to attend business school?
Anderson Alumnus: I liked what I was doing, but there were limited opportunities within my industry, and I knew switching industries would be challenging. I thought business school was the best way to open up my options. I would have stayed in the industry that I was in [construction] had the right opportunity arisen, but I felt that I would have much better options long-term if I did something different for awhile. That was the way I was leaning. I knew that something different would be best for my long-term career, so I went in with that mentality.
mbaMission: And what led you to choose UCLA Anderson for your MBA? Did it ultimately match your expectations?
AA: It definitely did. I didn’t know many people who had attended business school before I went to business school. One person I worked with had gone, but it was an exec ed [executive education] program, so a very different experience. I didn’t know quite what to expect. I went in thinking it was going to be very academically rigorous, I guess kind of like undergrad but with bigger problems. Actually, when I was interviewing at Stanford, I told the main interviewer why I wanted to go to business school, and she said, “You’re going to be in for the time of your life, and right now, you have no idea what to expect.”
That kind of helped me understand what business school would be like. So I went in expecting to have a pretty life-altering experience that would take me so many places, not just in my career but everywhere else in my life. And I did have that. One big reason I chose Anderson is location. I’ve been out west, I love the weather, I grew up in Montana and spent a lot of time in Utah, and I was sick and tired of the snow and that lifestyle, and I just wanted to go enjoy my life for a few years and be able to stay somewhere I like after business school. So that was a big thing. I looked for schools where I would be able to work in and around the area. I think 70% of UCLA grads stay in California once they graduate. So that was a big deal.
Another reason was culture and lifestyle. Every school says they have a great culture, and I’m sure they all have unique cultures and they’re great in some senses, but UCLA just fit me unlike any other. It was a casual place where everyone was incredibly friendly, always willing to help, and it just had the feel of a community, so that really helped. I knew I was going to be going in for two years of intense work, so I wanted to make sure I would enjoy everything else around me while I was there. And UCLA definitely beat those expectations.
mbaMission: So what was living in the Los Angeles (LA) area like? One of the things we hear about Anderson is that students really need to have a car—you have to drive, you can’t really get around otherwise. Is that true?
AA: Well, things in LA probably changed a lot when Uber and Lyft came out, the ride-sharing services. Most people at UCLA do have a car; I would say probably 80% or more. But most people also use Uber almost on a daily basis, especially going out at night. So during the day, getting to and from school, you use your car most of the time, but when you’re going to activities, going to the beach, going elsewhere, fighting traffic, and trying to find parking, you don’t want to deal with it. Uber is really cheap in LA, so it works.
Still, some people don’t have cars. I guess if you choose student housing, Anderson is right off campus. It’s still probably a 20-minute walk, because it’s on the opposite end of campus, but it’s right there and quite affordable, from what I understand. I have friends who lived there. It was very affordable, and you have a pretty good community of students there. A lot of them are international students. You can live close to campus is what I’m saying. Westwood is where I lived my first year, which is the city the campus is in. I still drove to school every day, because it was a half-hour walk versus a ten-minute drive. But most students live in Brentwood first year, and a lot of them rotate out to San Monica second year. They do that for the lifestyle.
I think if you’re willing to sacrifice having to get in your car and drive to and from school when you go, you’re able to live by the hot spots in LA. There’s a lot of night life in Brentwood and Santa Monica; you obviously have the beach, you’ve got so much to do during the day, or you can just get out and bike anywhere. Your first two quarters at Anderson are pretty tough, because you’re on campus so much that you do need a car, but after that, you have enough flexibility to where you’re only going [to campus] maybe three days a week, so you can ride with other people. And having a bike is probably important beyond that to enjoy the time during the day.
mbaMission: Sure. Does the school provide any parking?
AA: Grad students at UCLA get priority with parking permits. You’re not guaranteed a permit, I don’t believe, but I never had an issue. As long as you follow the requirements they have to apply by certain dates, then I’ve never heard of anyone not getting parking. If you forget and then you have to go back, it’s difficult, but Student Affairs at Anderson is phenomenal. If you need something and you don’t have it, they will do anything and everything they can to get it for you. They work with the parking office and the students a lot to help overcome that.
mbaMission: That’s good to hear. What would you say was the most surprising thing you encountered during your MBA experience?
AA: There was a lot that was eye-opening. I guess it was just the impressive level that everyone in the program is at. In undergrad, you have such a diverse group of people, where some are exceptionally talented and some are less talented naturally. At Anderson, you didn’t have that much of a dichotomy. Everyone is incredibly talented and is more than capable of doing almost any job you’d get coming out of business school. So you’re surrounded by a community of people who enjoy life, have fun, and are incredibly talented when it comes to extracurriculars. I mean star basketball players, star athletes, things like that. But then they’re also incredibly intelligent, good in the classroom, and professionally successful.
mbaMission: What were your thoughts on the core curriculum? Do you think that was a good approach?
AA: I liked it in the sense that it forced you to get out of your comfort zone a little bit and take classes you may not have taken otherwise, or at least for me. Accounting, statistics, finance, marketing, you get the whole breadth of everything, and I think it’s good to get exposure to all that and see what you may have thought you liked but weren’t sure, and then find some areas you didn’t think you would like but fall in love with. I know quite a few people took marketing classes and decided they really liked that. Someone at Anderson was going into fashion and retail and then took some finance classes and fell in love with investment banking. Now she’s at BAML [Bank of America Merrill Lynch] in New York. Just a complete 180. And so I think the core exposes us to things like that.
But it’s not too heavy. What I like about Anderson is you’re not forced into too many classes. You have to take a few core classes, and then there are some guiding segments you have to take, some of the upper division classes in certain areas, but you’re given flexibility within that. I really liked being able to pick and choose within a larger pool.
mbaMission: Did you end up selecting a track?
AA: I didn’t. I think the track is always touted in the literature, but to be honest, once you’re inside, it becomes much less relevant, and I rarely knew of someone who was worried much about following the specific tracks, at least when I was there. It may have changed since last year, but no one really focused on it; it wasn’t a huge thing. It just helped guide your first couple quarters, the way you take your classes. But beyond that, for electives, most people didn’t pay a lot of attention to the tracks. I didn’t.
mbaMission: So in your experience, people don’t often go that route?
AA: Most people will take maybe three or four classes that are on the track recommendation list, and if you’re close enough, you might as well finish it out. But people mainly go for the top classes. It’s pretty clear at Anderson. There’s a bidding system for courses, so everyone knows which classes are best, taught by the best professors, the most engaging, and that’s what everyone shoots for. So you lose focus of the tracks very quickly and work on getting into the better classes.
mbaMission: Can you tell me about your AMR [Applied Management Research] project? Everyone has to do one, don’t they?
AA: Yeah, you have a few other options, but I think the vast majority do AMR. You can do BCO [Business Creation Option], so if you actually have a start-up that has been vetted—you have to go through a class to get your business plan read and approved—then you can form a team that actually launches that start-up during school. And some teams do that. There’s also a real estate team, which is really only one team of five students. They have an annual competition against USC [University of Southern California], and we tend to win that almost every year. Anderson has phenomenal real estate faculty, so we do well there. And then there is AMR, which the vast majority of students do. I formed a team with two of my really close friends, who were also my roommates, plus two other women, and we got an international project working with a nonprofit organization based in the Pacific Islands.
It was an awesome project and really fun. The problem wasn’t necessarily well defined, so it was a really ambiguous project, which I guess is helpful for the real world in the sense that you get out into these careers now, and you’re handed a project that can go any different way. Having to manage that was interesting. It was a good process; it built teamwork, which was something that I had done a lot of, but rarely with people at that level. So you’re working in teams with a lot of very intelligent people who often take very strong stances in their opinions. So you’re balancing those personalities but also trying to figure out who has strengths in which areas. That was kind of the best aspect I pulled out of it, learning how to work in teams in that sense.
As far as strategy and implementation goes, we didn’t really get to see any implementation from our recommendation. The strategy wasn’t too complex. Essentially, they wanted to know whether they should open a trade office in the U.S., but then it went well beyond that. It was also how do we secure funding for this office, what strategy should we implement with this office, should we try to collect fees off what we’re doing, or should we look just for donations from local governments? There’s a lot of research needed to get to that point, but it wasn’t that we were changing the organization’s overall direction or strategy; it was pretty clear-cut what the options would be. All in all, I think AMR was a big growing experience for myself and most people in the program.
mbaMission: Did you do any traveling as part of your MBA experience?
AA: For my AMR, I did. Our team actually went down to Fiji and Samoa to do some primary research. And then we took a week after that and enjoyed some time on a private island in Fiji, just the five of us, which was cool. The school funds most of it, other than the personal time spent afterward, and then there are grants and organizations on campus, nonprofits within Anderson, that you can secure funding from to help pay for the trips. So it was a really cool experience that we didn’t have to put much money out-of-pocket toward. That was the only thing I did as far as formal school travel for projects. I did a ton of travel with friends, just exploring the world while we were there, probably ten trips—a lot of them out of the country.
mbaMission: That’s great. You’ve touched on this a little already, but how would describe or characterize your Anderson classmates?
AA: I would say as unselfish as you could find a lot of the time. Most of them are willing to help. I think that’s one thing that is pretty unique at Anderson—when you’re recruiting and doing that kind of stuff, I think a lot of other schools get pretty competitive; you hear those stories. At Anderson, I never once saw anyone doing something to harm anyone else or to make sure that they got an internship or a job or an interview at the expense of anyone else. When people got done with interviews, they’d come out and tell their friends how it went and help get their friends ready for interviews and things like that.
That was one really cool thing. Another was just a curious class. I mean, everyone wanted to learn what other people were doing, what they had done before school, how their internships went. We went to Europe, for instance, last summer and ended up staying with one of the guys from our program, with his family for a week in Italy. Everyone is more than willing to accommodate and do whatever they can in that sense, but people also want to explore everyone else’s background and see what kind of people they are beyond the professional aspect. I came from a very different background, so people were quite curious. It was, “You built temples. Explain that.” So, I talked to people about sourcing material, where we looked for different building products, and so on. Even with this random stuff, everyone wanted to learn. It was a fun experience to always be surrounded by such intellectually curious people.
mbaMission: Did you have any particularly standout professors or courses?
AA: I didn’t do as well on the bidding system as I would have hoped. They publish each year what the prior year’s results were, so you know what people bid [for different classes]. I used that a little too heavily as a guide, and for some reason, our class ended up bidding way more than the year above us. So I missed out on some classes I really wanted to take, but I had a few standouts; one of them I kind of lucked into. It was a really difficult class. A lot of work. And the professor is very demanding. But he’s also probably the best professor at Anderson in my eyes and to a lot of other students. It was “Corporate Financial Reporting” with Eric Sussman as the professor. He just won, last year while we were there, a UCLA-wide award for teaching; he was one of UCLA’s teachers of the year. He’s won countless Anderson awards. He’d been an accountant by trade for a long time and worked for an accounting audit firm. And then he got into real estate. Now he’s built out this real estate portfolio and a real estate management company and has done extremely well there.
My favorite thing about him is that he’s not teaching for the money; he’s teaching because he loves it, because he wants to educate these students and give back. I think he went to [Stanford] GSB for his grad school. The class was basically accounting on steroids. What you’re doing is literally each week, taking a new company and picking apart its financial statements, analyzing them and looking for problems. So he’d pick companies that everyone was familiar with in the sense that they had heard the name before, but not everyone knew what had happened with the company. And he presents it, and you go through it, and he points out all these problems that could be leading to the demise of the company, and then toward the end, you find out what really happened. Half of them went bankrupt, and Sussman would basically go through the financial records for these companies for the five years leading up to their bankruptcy and show that there was a clear path.
It’s fascinating. He’s traded stocks quite a bit and has been very successful in that space, too, and I believe he also teaches an equity valuation course. So he’s not just talking from a textbook or speaking from no experience; he practices what he preaches, and he does very well at it. So engaging, so passionate. I mean, seeing a teacher that genuinely does it not for the money but because they care—that was awesome. And if you were late, you’d have to buy snacks or treats or something for the entire class the next week—it’s his way of politely saying, “I’m here taking my time. I’m showing you respect; you better respect everyone else by being on time.” But he made it fun. Some professors could be jerks about this kind of thing, but Sussman made it fun and still accomplished what he needed. That’s kind of how his whole class was. Professor Sussman is also incredibly flexible when it comes to helping students. If you need the help, he will find a way to make time for you no matter your level. He truly was a passionate practitioner who invested so much in the students and school. People like him make Anderson exceptional.
AA: Another one is Paul Habibi. Anderson somehow has a secret real estate program that is just phenomenal, and Habibi is part of that. He has a real estate company as well. At our real estate club events, those two [Sussman and Habibi] battle to see who has made the most money on deals, but in a fun way. They basically take good-natured digs at each other, like Habibi makes fun of Sussman for wearing his Joseph A. Banks buy-one-get-six-free suits, and Habibi hears it for his fancy clothes, and he and Sussman just go back and forth. The banter whenever they do events together is awesome. They’re both wildly successful in real estate and equally impressive professors and people. It’s cool to see.
mbaMission: Is the dean [Judy Olian] pretty accessible to students?
AA: I would say definitely. She holds office hours every couple weeks. I went to one of her first office hours, just to talk about my experience so far, talk about a few things I didn’t love, talked about what I did enjoy, sat and had a half-hour conversation with her. She was more than accommodating, and I think that helped throughout the program. Every time I saw her after that, she would remember my name and say hello. So that was cool. I think there are times, though, when she seems a little out of touch with the rest of the program, probably just because of her job in the sense that she is traveling around securing funding, overseeing the higher levels of the school.
The associate deans right below her are probably the most tuned-in people I’ve seen. So, when I was there, we had the Assistant Dean [and Director] of Student Affairs Susan Judkins—she retired last year—but she knew every single student in that program, I kid you not. She knew their name, knew what they did, knew their story. If you needed anything, you could go to her, and she would make it happen.
And [Associate] Dean [Robert] Weiler, he’s kind of the heartbeat of the program from the student perspective. He’s very involved, and if there are problems on campus, I think most people would reach out to Student Affairs or to Dean Wyler and talk to him. Just because Dean Olian seems a little more removed in that sense. But if you ever did have a problem that you felt she needed to be aware of, or you just wanted to talk about other aspects of the program, you definitely could get access to her.
mbaMission: That’s good to hear. Were you involved in any student clubs or organizations?
AA: Yeah, quite a few, actually. First year, I was very involved, but then I decided my second year to kind of tone it back some and enjoy the free time I would have before I came back to the real world. So first year, I was a vice-president in the Management Consulting Association [MCA], and I was a section social chair. Each section elects a set of officials, presidents, academics chair, and so on. And there’s also a social committee that has representatives from each section. Planning parties is the wrong way to put it, but they ensure there’s a balance between social activities and work, and doing that actually takes a lot of work. We put on all the tailgates for the students at the Rose Bowl when we have home football games, plan the Halloween party, a lot of those events. And that took a lot of my time.
Beyond that, I was in the Public Speaking Club and active with Challenge for Charity—which I could do a whole hour on itself. It’s huge at Anderson. It’s not a club you’re necessarily part of, but I was the captain of the dodgeball team my second year and co-captain of softball my first year, so it required a little time. I was also part of Out at Anderson, the LGBTA [lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, and associates] organization on campus. Out at Anderson provides a neat opportunity to support the broader LGBT community at UCLA and is pretty well known on campus. The accepting nature of everyone on campus with regard to lifestyle choices was apparent, and it made me proud to be an Ally in the club and a member of the Anderson community.
Most people sign up for too many things and then find they actually don’t have time to do what they signed up for. But there’s a very good balance of interest clubs, identity clubs, professional clubs, and fun activity clubs. Typically, you’ll choose one professional club, so IFA [Investment Finance Association] if you want to do finance, MCA if you want to do consulting. Some people do both and try to figure out which one suits them, but most people realize it’s too much work. And then they’ll usually choose two or three identity clubs or social activity clubs beyond that. Anderson Eats is one where people just go out to restaurants and eat. The beer club and wine club have become big. I mean, there’s anything and everything you could want, and if you want more, it’s pretty easy to create a new club.
mbaMission: Nice. What do you think about Anderson’s facilities?
AA: I would actually say that facilities are some of Anderson’s weakest points. Nothing is falling apart—it’s not bad in that sense—it’s just when you see some of these other campuses that have been built in the past five years, ten years, even, they’re new and have more features. Anderson just seems a little old. It’s not grungy at all, but it seems like it could improve. Very few of the classrooms have windows. You get to enjoy the amazing LA weather the rest of the time, so you probably don’t need to see the sun those three hours you’re in class, but at GSB, for instance, the classrooms have floor-to-ceiling windows that they’ll open up throughout the day. That’s kind of a neat learning environment, but at Anderson, it’s not that way. It’s not something you worry about when you’re in class, but when you see the other campuses, you realize it could be improved.
Quiet study spaces on campus are also a little short. They redid the library, and they built a lot of study rooms that are all open top, because they’d done a survey of all the students, and the students said they still wanted a little banter; they didn’t want it completely quiet when they were in the libraries doing work, so they kept the study spaces open that way. But over time, they realized there’s actually too much noise. So when finals roll around and when AMR projects are in the thick of it, it’s tough to find quiet areas. You’re never going to be left without a study area, it’s just, how quiet is it going to be? Other than that, you have access to the rest of UCLA, which is phenomenal. You get access to the Wooden Athletic Center; it’s pretty solid. The basketball courts—you can play on the same courts that the visiting NBA teams warm up on when they come to town. Cool stuff like that.
mbaMission: Did you have much interaction with alumni?
AA: My perspective is, you get a lot of interaction with recent grads—one to three years out, there’s tons of interaction. They’re always on campus, they come back for events. Tour de Strand is a bike-ride, bar-hopping event we do, and tons of alumni come back for things like that. So you get introduced in informal settings, where it’s a lot more comfortable than a cold call—“Hey, can I get an informational interview with you?” As far as finding alumni that are a little deeper into their career, maybe five or ten years out, they’re not really on campus as often. You can find them and get access to them, or be referred to them; that’s kind of the best way. But there aren’t a lot that you interact with regularly.
There are events that we do each year—there’s the HTBA [High Tech Business Association] Conference and the PULSE Conference each year, for instance—so you get a lot of alumni coming back to do things like that. Also, during orientation, each section had a group of four alumni come back and do a panel. Most of them had been out in the workforce for five-plus years, so they were more seasoned vets, and you could kind of see what the long-term horizon out of Anderson looked like. It was cool to see that. It was refreshing to know that coming from Anderson, you can get into these pretty high-level positions not that far out. And orientation at Anderson is huge. It’s one of the times when they really go all out to make sure that you get all the resources you need.
mbaMission: Great. How did the school’s career development office help you with your job search?
AA: Parker [the Parker Career Management Center] helped a lot. Each individual student is assigned a career counselor or career advisor based on the field they want to go into. If you want to switch, you can formally, but there’s also a lot of just informal talking with different career counselors and advisors throughout the process. I had started with one, Amanda Durant, who worked mainly with students wanting to go into consulting or strategy-type roles. And she knew what she was talking about. She was strict; she demanded a lot of work. The mock interviews you had with her were more frightening than actual interviews with a lot of companies.
mbaMission: That’s good, though.
AA: Yeah, exactly, because she was so serious! She took it very seriously. It wasn’t shooting the s–t with her at all in our meetings. She would get to know you and your story and have fun with you that way, but once she turned her face to business mode, it was business mode. I think she retired or left to do private consulting last year, but there are those kinds of people throughout. So Dean Wyler, who I mentioned earlier, used to oversee Parker, and he revamped it a few years ago. They were in trouble as far as performance five or six years ago, and he did a really good job turning it around.
He put Regina Regazzi in charge of it, and she’s also a career advisor for finance students. She does an awesome job and is probably more committed to making sure that her students succeed than almost anyone I’ve seen. When Regina’s students got big offers from companies, they would call her at whatever hour to fill her in, because she was so invested in much of the recruiting. She and the other advisors were by your side for the whole process. To me, it’s neat that I know almost all of the Parker team by name, because I could always leverage any of them, if needed. I regularly used Emily Taylor to find info on recent industry hiring trends, and when Chris Weber joined, I leveraged him a few times for insights on strategy roles.
I was incredibly impressed by the Parker Career Center. If you want the time, you’ll get the face time. If you want them to stay until 8:00 at night and help you with stuff, they will. They go to a lot of events on campus, you see them outside of that as well, and you can really find the advisors almost anywhere. The Parker database is also a big thing. They do a really good job of posting all the jobs that come through formal on-campus recruiting. And they also do a really good job of interacting with alumni and having them post jobs at their companies that are available through less formal means. There are countless jobs you can apply for throughout your time at Anderson. They still have that for alumni as well.
mbaMission: Nice. What resources or experiences did you have at Anderson that you believe helped prepare you for your current job?
AA: I think a lot of it was just the breadth that you get at Anderson They force you through the core to take classes in everything, and then they give you such a wide breadth of electives that a lot of people just explore so many areas. And what I need to do my current job—it’s somewhat marketing, but it’s also strategy, it’s also analytics—I just need so much experience and exposure everywhere that I think that was the biggest thing, just being able to come here and talk accounting with people. Before Anderson, I would have had no idea what a balance sheet really looked like or understood the depth of a company doing $100-plus billion dollars a year in revenue. So being able to come in and have intelligent conversations about COGS [cost of goods sold] and other things like that was good.
Coming out of business school, I don’t think you’re expected to be an expert in any one area unless you go into a very specific role, but you need to have experience and exposure in many different areas, and that’s what Anderson did. I didn’t become an expert in finance or marketing, but I got enough exposure to where I could hold my own and then become an expert in the company I work at. That was the big thing I got out of it.
mbaMission: That makes sense. Switching gears, what would you say your favorite social events or extracurricular activities were at Anderson?
AA: Too many. [Laughs.] They have so many awesome events that it’s hard to say. C4C is huge; I loved C4C, Challenge for Charity. It’s a cool thing to do. You bring in a lot of money for good causes, and at the same time, you get exposure to so many other schools and students and just have a heck of a time for a few days. And the football games are always awesome, the tailgates. Anderson probably throws the largest tailgates of any of the UCLA groups, even undergrads. Beach days were also awesome. Saturdays, you’d often hang out, go ride along the beach, play some beach volleyball, bike over to a happy hour, spend a few hours drinking, and then go out and get ready for the night. That was a cool thing at Anderson, being able to do that sort of thing the entire time you’re in the program. Going to the beach and surfing in the morning in December is hard to beat. What I’m trying to do now is figure out how to get back there!
mbaMission: I’m sure. What do you think more people should know about Anderson that they probably don’t know?
AA: I think, when you’re getting your MBA, what a lot of people probably don’t think about a lot is the lifestyle they’re going to live while they’re there. What I realized is that in your two years, you’re going to have a very similar education almost anywhere you go as far as the core classes. You’re going to take finance, you’re going to take marketing, you’re going to take statistics, and you’re going to have very similar faculty. We had teachers from GSB, from Wharton, from [Michigan] Ross; teachers who have taught everywhere came here. It’s not like you have a lower caliber of teachers at Anderson. You’re getting a very similar experience in that sense. But what is not similar, I think, is the access to the resources you have outside the school or even within the broader community.
UCLA is an enormous world-class university, and you have access to all the other colleges on campus. You can take classes there, access the facilities, the resources, the city. Beyond that, it’s just the lifestyle you can live in LA—like I said, going to the beach in December. You have stresses that come with business school, and you don’t want to go home after class and have to deal with shoveling your sidewalk or trying to find somewhere to park in the snow. You want to go home and meet some friends out and have fun, and LA is just a phenomenal city for that. You have so many neighborhoods—Hollywood, downtown, Santa Monica, Venice—and they’re just such different areas that honestly, the opportunities are endless. There are 50 things I had on my to-do list that I didn’t get to while I was there. I mean, I had to go climb up to the Hollywood sign after I graduated because I didn’t have time before.
mbaMission: This is why you want to go back!
AA: Exactly! I still have a lot to do. It’s just a world-class city. That’s my point, you’re going to have a very similar experience in business school, from what I can tell from talking to students from other places, but it’s all the other ancillary benefits that LA provides. I would encourage people to go hang out on UCLA Anderson’s campus for a day or two, because you get a feel for the student body and how engaging they are and how genuine the entire community is. It’s a pretty cool experience.
mbaMission: Thank you so much for giving us some great firsthand insight into the Anderson experience. I learned a lot.
AA: Sure, I’m happy to help.