Earlier this year, we\u00a0were quite fortunate to interview Sara Neher,\u00a0Director of Admissions at UVA-Darden, who was particularly candid in sharing her thoughts. Some highlights include:<\/p>\n
mbaMission:<\/strong><\/em> My first question is the question I ask everyone and the one I\u2019m most interested in personally. What is Darden not known for that it should be known for? What are its hidden strengths, and what are the special gems or programs you think people should know about?<\/p>\n Sarah Neher:<\/strong> <\/em>That\u2019s an interesting question. I wish we were so well known that everyone knew all the things about us that I think are wonderful. I\u2019m always surprised when somebody says, \u201cWell, Darden\u2019s a finance school, right?\u201d and I say, \u201cWell, Darden\u2019s a general management school.\u201d But I get the opposite, also: \u201cWell, not too many people go to finance,\u201d and then I say, \u201cWell, actually 40% of our class will go to finance.\u201d<\/p>\n It\u2019s just such an interesting question, because I think it is dependent so much on people\u2019s own lens and their own perspective when they start the research process. I think one of the things that I wish people did know more about is really how innovative we have become in recent years, and I think that that\u2019s in part because of the great research going on at the Batten Institute, but it\u2019s also because our faculty are really invested in sustainability and innovation and entrepreneurship, and those are all areas that there\u2019s just a lot of learning going on. And so what we\u2019re teaching, the cases we\u2019re writing, they\u2019re all changing by the month. And it\u2019s really dynamic and exciting. It\u2019s being integrated in the first year, but you can also spend your entire second year doing courses in these areas, because the second year is so flexible. So, I think that\u2019s probably what I would say at this point.<\/p>\n mbaMission:<\/strong><\/em> What do you think Darden does uniquely well?<\/p>\n SN:<\/strong><\/em> I think that we teach people how to make decisions extremely well. And that\u2019s really through the case method and the level of personal interaction that it requires. Decisions are not just about analyzing data, they\u2019re also about understanding people and their motivations and their perspectives. And I think that you will learn that here, from the combination of the case method and the level at which you\u2019re going to be expected to participate, and that you\u2019re going to want to participate with the faculty and the staff, and your clubs and activities.<\/p>\n mbaMission:<\/strong><\/em> Is Darden working to strengthen any particular academic areas?<\/p>\n SN:<\/strong> <\/em>Well, I would say last year\u2019s hire was in the sustainability area\u2014strategy and sustainability, environmental sustainability. That was certainly an area that we were strengthening. We\u2019re good there now, and [Samuel L. Slover Professor of Business Michael] Lenox is really amazing and impressive. And then this year, we\u2019ve hired a few faculty, two women, and I\u2019m not sure if there\u2019s a third person\u2014but they\u2019re in different areas, so I don\u2019t know that that\u2019s really a trend.<\/p>\n mbaMission:<\/strong><\/em> Darden made significant changes in the admissions process when you came on board, switching from open interviews to interviews by request. What was the thinking behind that change?<\/p>\n SN:<\/strong> <\/em>The biggest reason I felt like we needed to change that was really just a fairness issue. What I saw the first year I was here was, because international students were rarely able to come here for an interview, they were on an \u201cinterview by invitation\u201d process. They did not get to interview before they applied. And domestic students or international students living in the United States, if they had enough funds, could come here beforehand. And I felt like that was not the best way to get the best class possible or, really, to treat everyone equally.<\/p>\n In addition to that, when I met with my peers at other schools, we were all trying to figure out ways that we could reduce the economic burden on people applying. And requiring people to make a trip to Charlottesville before they could even apply seemed like an undue burden. And it seemed like it was limiting the diversity we could have in the class in international, socioeconomic and geographic [ways]\u2014it was limiting us. And we have seen that diversity grow in our application pool with the change. It has really nice side benefits, like allowing us to travel more in the fall, because we\u2019re not having to be here to interview. But those weren\u2019t the underlying, core issues. And the first year, we thought, \u201cOh, if this doesn\u2019t work, we\u2019ll switch back, no big deal,\u201d but it has gone really well.<\/p>\n mbaMission:<\/strong> <\/em>How do you make sure people really understand what they are getting into at Darden, with regard to both the workload and the case method?<\/p>\n SN:<\/strong> <\/em>I don\u2019t think anyone can really understand what it\u2019s like to be in business school until they come to business school. And Darden is certainly uniquely participatory, and that requires you to be on your toes and do your preparation in a way that isn\u2019t true at a lot of places. I think, luckily, that\u2019s pretty well known, so [applicants] at least know it\u2019s going to be more work than other places, from a preparation standpoint, but I think unless they come and visit a class or meet with our faculty, that\u2019s hard to really get a sense for.<\/p>\n What we did do this year was create a really wonderful video of [Associate Professor] Peter Rodriguez teaching an actual case class, and that has really helped people understand that level of participation and why you need to do the work to be prepared to discuss in class. We\u2019ve gotten really good feedback from that, and we\u2019re doing one this fall that will be on how you teach accounting in the case method, with [Robert F. Vandell Research Associate Professor] Luann Lynch, and I think that will really help people understand how it works but also what it takes to be a part of it. Using more video, I think, is really the only way to get [the case method] across to a broader audience that can\u2019t come here. You can actually watch the video of the full class as well, which is about 75 minutes. So, if you really want to see a full class, you can. [Watch the Darden Case Method Video featuring Professor Rodriguez online at www.darden.virginia.edu\/html\/standard.aspx?menu_id=635&styleid=2&id=812 ]<\/p>\n mbaMission:<\/strong><\/em> Darden moved from a rigid curriculum to a more flexible curriculum. Can you comment on what some of the specific changes were and how the switch has been received?<\/p>\n SN:<\/strong><\/em> The first-year curriculum had always been a prescribed core for the entire year, and what we found was that in the third quarter\u2014so, in the winter and early spring\u2014people were really identifying what their summer internship was going to be. So now you can take three electives in your fourth quarter, in addition to two core classes, that are really designed to prepare you for that internship.<\/p>\n So, whatever you\u2019ve chosen to do your internship in, you can take courses that will support that. Some are general, the electives, but for the most part, if you\u2019re going to go into finance, you can take \u201cValuation\u201d with [Associate Professor] Yiorgos Allayannis, and really get that out in your first year, so you\u2019re ready to go right into that bank and wow them. And [that class] was one of the most popular second-year electives, so why not make it available earlier? Or, you can take advanced topics in consulting with [Professor] Jeanne Liedtka and really be prepared to be client ready for the summer, not when you graduate, and really, again, close the deal on the job. And that has gone really well. People have felt very prepared for their internship; they\u2019ve loved the electives. It\u2019s not a huge choice list, so they\u2019re still able to work in their learning teams; a lot of them are still taking the same classes, so it hasn\u2019t created a bunch of movement. But it\u2019s really allowed people to do well, and people are getting jobs at the end of the summer, which is ultimately what a lot of people are interested in.<\/p>\n I don\u2019t know this summer if we\u2019ll see something radically different. I don\u2019t think it will be impacted by the courses [students] took fourth quarter\u2014it will be the economy\u2014but I think it\u2019s gone well. I don\u2019t think there are any changes planned for the first year, and the second year is completely flexible already. I know that there are committees looking at everything, as there always are at Darden, but I think anything that would change would be several years away, and we\u2019d have a lot more information about it before anything would change.<\/p>\n mbaMission:<\/strong> <\/em>Speaking of jobs, how\u00a0did summer students and both first- and second-year students do with their job searches?<\/p>\n SN:<\/strong> <\/em>Really great. Obviously, we were very concerned. We were really fortunate that, because we\u2019re a general management school, we had companies step in as banks disappeared. Because, suddenly there was no Lehman Brothers, Barclays took all of those people. We had other companies\u2014Danaher, Honeywell\u2014that came in and were excited to get a chance at those people. So, I think we feel really great about it and like things went well, but we don’t yet have final stats. We also have a very proactive career development office and a very helpful faculty; they\u2019re very helpful.<\/p>\n The career development office led what they called goal sessions, which were basically lead-generating sessions for students, by function, with faculty and staff that had either worked in that function, consulted in that function or who teach in that function. And those generated a lot of opportunities for people to tap the network that is Darden. The alumni were already being tapped, but this was to really get the faculty and staff in that have a lot of connections. We did the same for internships. This is what this place is\u2014it\u2019s connected, and we are going to help everybody. So, I was helping people find internships, and so were people on my staff, and it was much easier. I know all the students, so I can sell them really easily. I\u2019m obviously confident in them, and it was really fun, actually, to find some connections that worked out into jobs.<\/p>\n mbaMission:<\/strong><\/em> What would you say to someone who is applying who is unemployed or has been laid off? Can you compare the Admissions Committee\u2019s view of someone who got laid off three months ago with that of someone who might have been laid off a year ago? Is there a difference, in your opinion?<\/p>\n SN:<\/strong><\/em> There is. I have a higher expectation of what you should have been doing in the interim, the longer ago you were laid off. So, I want to see that you\u2019re doing something with your time that\u2019s going to move your plan forward. I would expect to see people take some time to figure out what that plan might be\u2014they might be changing course; they might be going in a totally new direction. And that\u2019s fine, but I want to see them, after a little bit of time, figuring out what that is. So, if they\u2019ve been laid off for three months, I think that\u2019s reasonable. After three months, I think people need to be volunteering, or they need to be finding another job. If they\u2019re not looking for a full-time job or can\u2019t find a full-time job, we want to see them trying to volunteer or shadow people in the industry or function they want to enter. I had someone this year who got laid off but knew they wanted to start a restaurant someday\u2014maybe not even right after business school, but that was sort of a side passion for them. So they ended up working as a waitress and then got into the kitchen a little bit and got to do some managing, and spent five months working in a restaurant. And that\u2019s because it was something they were passionate about. It wasn\u2019t for the money; it was to learn something on the ground that they could put into practice. And that would be great to talk about in class: they fired people, they hired people, they dealt with a lot of interpersonal issues and that will be good fodder for class and for learning, and also help advance the person\u2019s life plan.<\/p>\n mbaMission:<\/strong><\/em> How are candidates\u2019 files reviewed at Darden?<\/p>\n SN:<\/strong> <\/em>Each file is reviewed at least three times, and it may be reviewed as many as eight times, because there are eight people on the Admissions Committee. We spend a lot of time with your file. It is very important that we read everything about you. We don\u2019t triage by score\u2014every reader gets a set of files, and they\u2019re randomly assigned initially so that we really are treating everyone equally and giving everyone the same amount of time. And we will read everything that comes as part of your application: your essays, your recommendations, everything. The first two readers combined will make a decision about whether to invite someone for an interview. If someone\u2019s invited for an interview, that could be here, or if they\u2019re overseas, that could be overseas. Or, we\u2019re going to be trying Skype this year. We\u2019ll also do some by phone.<\/p>\n mbaMission:<\/strong><\/em> Will the Skype interviews be with video or without?<\/p>\n SN:<\/strong><\/em> Both, probably. We\u2019re going to try the video and see how it goes. We\u2019re going to use video with some of our recent grads this summer. We already know them, so we can see if we actually can get a sense for them via the video or not, and see if it\u2019s a distraction. But I think we\u2019re going to at least try it in some places. Next. the evaluation comes in from the interviewer, it\u2019s read again, and then it\u2019s read by me last, and I will review all the files and make all the final decisions. If [the application] doesn\u2019t go to interview, it will come to me sooner, after a second read instead of after a third read.<\/p>\n mbaMission:<\/strong> <\/em>When you read the application, how do you do it? What do you read first?<\/p>\n SN:<\/strong><\/em> I am looking at what my previous readers have highlighted for me, but I\u2019m also going to look at most of the transcripts, the interview. You would be amazed at how often the interviewer uses the same language to describe someone as the recommenders do. It is uncanny. You are who you are. I think our interview process draws that out a little bit because it\u2019s a little bit longer and a little bit more personal than some, but you can\u2019t really trick us. Someone who\u2019s recommending you has known you for a while, and the interviewer often uses the very same language to describe someone. That is so comforting, to feel like you\u2019re really getting an accurate picture of someone. And then you read their essays and get that. When I\u2019m reading, I\u2019m looking for inconsistencies, to make sure there isn\u2019t something that I\u2019m missing or that doesn\u2019t make sense to me. But if everything is consistent and we want you to be a part of our class and we think you\u2019ll add value, then it\u2019s an easy decision. The hard ones are in the middle, where something is inconsistent or we\u2019re not sure we\u2019re getting enough of a picture of you. That\u2019s challenging. It\u2019s also amazing, the stories people have and what we learn about business and different parts of the world and the United States. It\u2019s just a wonderful job. I love to hear people\u2019s stories.<\/p>\n mbaMission:<\/strong><\/em> In those cases where people are \u201cin the middle,\u201d what happens?<\/p>\n SN:<\/strong> <\/em>Sometimes if we still don\u2019t feel like we know who you are, that\u2019s a problem in and of itself that will prevent you from getting in. We feel like at that point, we\u2019ve given you many opportunities to let us know who you are, and if something\u2019s still not feeling right or is inconsistent, or we don\u2019t feel like you gave us enough information\u2014we feel like your essays were incredibly vague and could have been written by somebody else; not written for you, but just don\u2019t tell us enough about you, that I could have had the same story\u2014then you haven\u2019t done your job, and you won\u2019t get in, no matter what your scores are. If I really like you but I\u2019m concerned about your ability to do the work, you\u2019re also not going to get in. And that\u2019s also not based on one score or one grade; that\u2019s going to be [based on] what everyone says about your work ethic or your drive. And then if I don\u2019t feel like you\u2019re a leader, you\u2019re not going to get in. If you haven\u2019t been showing us that you\u2019ve been involved in enough activities and that you\u2019re willing to take initiative and work with others, I\u2019m going to be concerned about that. So it\u2019s not so much that you could provide us with anything else at that point. I really want to see it in the application and in the other pieces. But sometimes we\u2019ll call or e-mail someone and ask a question, or we\u2019ll find out if someone\u2019s going to be at an event and talk to them there. But this is an opportunity, these applications, and it\u2019s pretty thorough. Please give it all that you can in the space we provide.<\/p>\n mbaMission:<\/strong> <\/em>How much coaching do you feel is appropriate for a recommender? Do you think it should be a completely hands-off process, or do you think it is okay for applicants to discuss their goals for business school with their recommenders?<\/p>\n SN:<\/strong> <\/em>Please sit down and talk to them. It will be a good process for you, too. It will be introspective for you. When I write a recommendation for someone\u2014which I\u2019ve done a fair amount, especially in my previous job\u2014I ask the person to send me their resume. I ask for bullet points; never write actual paragraphs, because that leads to too much of your own language potentially going into the recommendation, but bullet points that cover your key accomplishments or the reasons you want to go to that school. I also ask for the mission statement of the school or something from the school\u2019s Web site so that I know what that school is about, so I can think about how that person would be a fit for that school. A little bit of a package to give to the person so that they\u2019re ready to write the recommendation. And then sit down with them and talk about the goals and the purpose and the why. Hopefully there is someone that you do that with anyway, a mentor or a manager that already knows your career plan. But if not, certainly spend that time.<\/p>\n mbaMission:<\/strong><\/em> How can a candidate best reveal his or her fit with Darden?<\/p>\n SN:<\/strong><\/em> This is an excellent question, because I think each school I talk to and each staff member at each school that I talk to has a different feeling about this question of fit. I do think we want applicants who have really thought about the schools they\u2019re applying to, but I think until you\u2019re actually there, if you haven\u2019t visited, it\u2019s hard to know. I don\u2019t always expect people to reveal as much about fit as I think some schools might. I think that if you tell me who you are, what you\u2019re about and what you want to accomplish, I\u2019ll be able to see if you\u2019re a fit or not. It\u2019s more important to me that we get personal details, because one of the mistakes people make is regurgitating the Web site back to us. You telling me that you want to take so-and-so\u2019s class or the case method is important because of what we put on our Web site is just a waste of your word count. It shows me that you can read our Web site, but it doesn\u2019t show me anything about who you are. Really spend that time with personal examples, incidents, specific stories that you think tell me something about yourself that would make you a fit for the case method. For example, something about presenting at a board meeting and the questions you were asked and how you had to manage that on your feet and what kind of preparation you had to do beforehand\u2014that would completely tell me that you could accomplish the case method, right? But it doesn\u2019t tell me exactly what I already know about the case method that I\u2019ve told you on the Web site. Really personal examples from the workplace or from an activity, that\u2019s how you can convey that the best. The best essays are always about a moment in time and not a laundry list or a chronology of everything you\u2019ve ever done.<\/p>\n mbaMission:<\/strong> <\/em>Do you judge applications differently in Round 1 versus Round 2? Is it better to get in during Round 1?<\/p>\n SN:<\/strong> <\/em>It\u2019s always better to do the first round. The main reason for that is because every seat and every scholarship dollar is available, so it\u2019s open. In Round 2 it\u2019s pretty similar in terms of the admit rate, but I would say that there are fewer scholarship dollars available per person because people from the first round accepted them. It\u2019s impossible for us to make it even, so I would say always try to apply in the first round if at all possible. I welcome people to apply in the third round, especially if they\u2019ve had job changes or life changes, but please explain why you\u2019re applying in that round. If you\u2019re reading an interview like this, you\u2019re pretty prepared, so you should explain why. And it\u2019s perfectly acceptable to say, \u201cI wanted to take the GMAT again\u201d or \u201cI wanted to make sure my recommenders had time.\u201d That\u2019s okay. Your chances aren\u2019t going to be as good as if you\u2019d applied in Round 1, but having a reason like that is fine.<\/p>\n mbaMission:<\/strong> <\/em>What kind of discrepancy in volume do you see from Round 1 to Round 2 to Round 3?<\/p>\n SN:<\/strong> <\/em>It used to be a lot different. Round 1 has really grown in the last few years and is almost the same size as Round 2, slightly smaller, and then Round 3 is maybe a quarter the size of those, maybe a third. It\u2019s pretty small.<\/p>\n mbaMission:<\/strong> <\/em>What did you see in terms of application volume last year? Do you have a prediction as to whether the volume will increase or decrease this year?<\/p>\n SN:<\/strong> <\/em>We were flat this year, which I felt was really fine, given that we lost our international student loan program earlier than many schools did. I felt like we really had very strong domestic growth, and it pretty much equaled the decline from India. If you look at GMAC\u2019s data, GMAC\u2019s test-taking in India is down, and so I expect that to be the trend going forward. But I think that there are some markets really growing, so I don\u2019t expect the applications to go up this year, but I expect that we might be steady again. If you look at a 20-year trend, business school applications will go up preceding a downturn in the economy, and then they\u2019ll level out, and then they\u2019ll start to go down as the economy recovers. So, if the economy really takes off, as I hope it does, we could see a decline in applications. But I think it could be flat.<\/p>\n mbaMission:<\/strong> <\/em>Has the student loan situation been resolved?<\/p>\n SN:<\/strong> <\/em>The rising second years and the incoming students all have loans sufficient to cover all their expenses, and they\u2019ve had that for a couple months now, and that\u2019s all going fine. I think everyone\u2019s expecting more banks to enter the arena in the next year, which will increase the competition, which will change all the rates, so we might want to change our programs to take advantage of lower rates. So I can\u2019t really predict what it will be.<\/p>\n mbaMission:<\/strong> <\/em>So all incoming students this year have loans?<\/p>\n SN:<\/strong> <\/em>Yes.<\/p>\n mbaMission:<\/strong> <\/em>Is there anything else you want people to know about Darden or about applying to the school?<\/p>\n SN:<\/strong> <\/em>There are always things I want people to know. I would say, never be afraid to interview because you think it\u2019s going to be competitive. Don\u2019t try to differentiate yourself from others; try to be your best self. These are sort of clich\u00e9, but people get caught up in \u201cThere are so many consultants applying\u201d or \u201cThere are so many bankers applying.\u201d I still want the best and most interesting bankers or the best and most interesting consultants, so don\u2019t let that dissuade you. I would say, do try to watch some of the videos and things, because you can get a much better sense for the program [that way] if you\u2019re not able to come to Charlottesville. We will be releasing our list of our travel cities; we\u2019re going to be going to over 60 cities this fall, so hopefully you can come visit us as we\u2019re traveling. And the dean will be at many of those events. Our events are unique in that there\u2019s usually equal numbers of alums to prospective students, so you really get to talk to a lot of alumni. And that\u2019s really valuable, because I think very highly of our alumni, and I really believe that you can get a really good sense for the program if you talk to people who have been through it. We do not do PowerPoint at our events. You can get that from the Web site. So take a look at those things and those videos on the Web site beforehand, and come and talk to people.<\/p>\n